When your church members, family, and friends are experiencing grief and suffering, it comes with profound challenges. Nevertheless, the Gospel can bring hope, healing, and comfort in these difficult times. During this episode of the Southwesterners’ Forum, SWBTS associate professor of biblical counseling Lilly Park shares her insights and biblical principles for equipping believers to help others through difficult times.
The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.
When your church members, family, and friends are experiencing grief and suffering, it comes with profound challenges. Nevertheless, the Gospel can bring hope, healing, and comfort in these difficult times. During this episode of the Southwesterners’ Forum, SWBTS associate professor of biblical counseling Lilly Park shares her insights and biblical principles for equipping believers to help others through difficult times.
The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.
Chloe Purcell 0:02
All right, good morning everyone, and thank you for tuning in today for the Southwestern Forum. My name is Chloe Purcell, and I’m a masters of divinity student here studying biblical counseling. I’m joined today by one of my professors, a mentor to me, and also a friend. Dr Lilly Park, how are you today? Why don’t you take a moment to go and introduce yourselves to all of our viewers, tell them who you are, what you do, what you’re passionate about.
Lilly Park 0:27
So I’m Lilly Park, and I’ve been doing biblical counseling for about 20 years now, and this is a topic that’s near to me with grief and suffering, not only through my own family sufferings, but also people I’ve met in the church and through counseling who have gone through various kinds of suffering. So I’m glad we’re having this topic. I get asked this question, often by pastors who email me and or call me for recommendations and guidance. So I hope this is helpful for all of you, and we will try our best to answer your questions thoughtfully and biblically.
Chloe Purcell 1:12
Perfect. So yeah, grief and suffering is something that As believers, we are going to experience the moment we become believers. It doesn’t mean that this life gets easy, sometimes it means actually gets significantly harder. So Dr Park, why don’t you just start us off by talking about the basics of grief and suffering, maybe the basic theology behind that?
Lilly Park 1:34
Yeah, I think when one of the common issues I encounter when I meet with people who are suffering or grieving is this conflict they have as a Christian? And the conflict is, if I am a Christian, why am I suffering? And even though they might have heard sermons that the Christian life is full of suffering and even persecution for your faith, when it happens to you and it’s so personal and painful, we have mature, spiritually mature, even people with PhDs in theology, it really shakes their faith at times to think about, who is God? Why is this happening? Did I do something to deserve this? And one passage I like to just encourage them is that this world is broken. It’s it’s not the way that God created. It to be. It’s full of sin. And we use 8:28 often, Romans 8:28, but I don’t think we look ahead before it enough. It says Romans 8:22, For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together with labor pains until now, not only that, but we ourselves, who have the spirit as the first fruits, we also groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. Now in this hope we were saved, but hope that is seen does not hope, because who hopes for what he sees. Now, if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with patience. I think that’s helpful to see that we don’t suffer necessarily because we have sinned sometimes, but sometimes we suffer because we live in a world that is groaning and waiting for the return of Christ and when we will have perfected bodies and no more No more illnesses, no more cancer, no more death. So I like to put that perspective the big picture that instead of isolating into why you’re suffering is why we have suffering in the first place, is because of sin in this world.
Chloe Purcell 4:02
Absolutely and ultimately, at the heart of biblical counseling, we look at the sin issue, what’s going on in the heart, what’s going on why we suffer to begin with, and it’s ultimately because of sin. And that is the entire point of studying biblical counseling, is to get to that heart. So I love that you mentioned that. So today’s topic also is very applicable for the church, the church as a whole Dr Park, how do you feel the church has done a good job in addressing grief and suffering, and what are some areas that you think the church needs to improve?
Lilly Park 4:38
Yeah, and certainly this is case by case situation, but I think churches do a good job of teaching about trust God, trust God and persevere in your faith and even encouraging people in their suffering to turn to God for comfort, like in second. Corinthians, one verse three talks about but I think there’s this, the theology, the Bible answer, and it doesn’t get translated practically in ways that are always helpful. And I don’t think it’s because they’re not wanting to be helpful. I think people intend well, they have good meanings, good intentions. But what I hear from people is sometimes they’re even more hurt because of the lack of response or the words that we say. So I think the church does a good job in having good intentions, but I think a way that we can do better is approaching people, not in trying to fix their problems. And I think that’s where the emails come in and the phone calls of, what do I say? What do I do to make it go away? And we can’t do that, as you know, right? It’s the God of our all comfort, but we can point people to the God of all comfort. And I think part of that is asking them questions of, what makes this so hard, and even some questions like, What do you worry about? Maybe some people are wrestling with their grief and suffering because they’re thinking about financial payments. They’re thinking about who’s going to take care of my children.
Lilly Park 6:31
So what do you worry about? What keeps you up at night and then we can’t just end there. How can we as a church come around you, alongside you, to alleviate some of the concerns that you have. I remember hearing this one story of a person in the hospital and she is dying, and I think it was a student of mine who’s a chaplain, and he asked her, what she’s afraid, what she’s worried. And you know what it was? It was something that we might consider be mundane. It was about keeping things in order in her home, and something that seems so small was was keeping her up at night, was creating this anxiety, and so she was able to talk to the family members of addressing those practical concerns. So I think asking questions of what is it that makes this so hard for you can be helpful. So we’re not trying to just give the Bible answers. That’s, there’s, that’s, there’s a time and place for that, but I need to understand you as a person, because I can know 10 other people who had the same experience as you, but each person experiences that same problem differently, and if I really want to help you, really care for you and comfort you, I need to ask questions to understand your heart but also your story better, and that will give me more guidance in How I can speak the gospel and relevant Bible passages and God’s promises in a way that is meaningful and not just slapping a verse onto you.
Lilly Park 8:32
So I think we need to ask some questions of like, what do you worry about? Another good question is, what are you afraid? And I think even a more sobering question of someone who has a terminal diagnosis that they only have a few months to live might be, are you ready to die? And that sounds so cold, perhaps, but if we don’t face the reality we live in denial. And denial is one of those key problems, key struggles people face. We need to help address the reality but and give them practical help, but also biblical hope for what they are afraid of. But I think denial is one of the common struggles. The secular world talks about five or seven stages, whichever model you look at, yes, but denial is one of them, right and, and you also have bargaining and and depression, and you come to the point of acceptance, even so. But the thing is, the secular model, you know, what’s missing? Hope. Yeah, there’s no Christ in it. Absolutely, it’s very much. You need to figure it out. You need to go through these stages, and maybe not in that order, but it’s very much on you working through it. Yes, and as Christians, I’m so glad I don’t have to work through it on my own. I don’t have to figure it out God will help me through the Holy Spirit in his word and godly people. So I think denial is a common issue that we might encounter with people in the church.
Chloe Purcell 10:23
Yeah, I love that. You know, you mentioned the secular world, because Dr Park knows, but that’s a big part of my personal story coming out of secular psychology into a biblical counseling model. And you’re absolutely right about missing hope. And if there’s any pastors with us today, or maybe watching this back, I want to encourage you in that you have such a gift that the secular world will never be able to give someone seeking guidance through grief and suffering, and that is a true life changing, Soul Saving hope. That’s right. That is in Jesus Christ alone, that’s right. And you mentioned, you know, you gave so many wise points, I’m just going back through my mind. But you mentioned, you know, as a biblical counselor, our role is not to fix people, you know, it’s not to diagnose them, send them out the door and they are good for the rest of their life. Because ultimately we don’t have that power. No, we don’t, and we will never have that power, no. But what we can do is, as fellow believers in Christ, walk beside that person who is in grief and suffering, weep alongside them, but ultimately point them to a hope that otherwise they would never get it or they would never hear it. So I love that you mentioned that. I think that’s a big misconception when it comes to the secular world, is, yeah, you know, the you will be fixed. And yeah, that’s just not the reality.
Lilly Park 11:53
Yeah. And I think with that comes along with we put a lot of burden on ourselves as church leaders to be that comfort, like we’ve been talking about. And I just want to encourage those who are church leaders here even is your presence speaks so powerfully, like being in the hospital with them, in the funeral home with them, or just checking in on them at home, or sending a card. People don’t forget those things. Yes, sometimes we want to. I mean, I love our pastors, but sometimes they want to give a sermon right there, and or sometimes our seminary students want to do that too, but they’re not, it’s not going to register, right? They’re they’re emotionally drained, overwhelmed, or maybe they don’t even have energy, and so to try to concentrate, and so you don’t have to feel like you have to give a profound answer. Job’s friends were silent for like, a week before they started talking. That’s a separate issue.
Lilly Park 13:04
But I think presence, the physical body lead presence, can mean so much. And when I meet with you, let’s say you’re the one who’s suffering just even silence, yes, can be okay, and maybe hugging you or holding your hands, and just say, Chloe, can I pray for you? Or Chloe, I’m praying for you. I think that can be very comforting. And instead of trying to say too much, so I say in my classes, you know, comfort. Don’t preach in the beginning. There’s a time and place for everything. Now, some people want scripture passages and everything in the beginning, and that, if that’s the case, then, yeah, share those passages right there. But don’t think you’re not being helpful. You’re not being useful, just because you don’t have all these eloquent passages right there. So it’s so I should say this in the beginning, grief and suffering, especially grief, is so individualistic. I think it is one of the hardest counseling situations. More than addictions, more than other problems. I think grief is because we really can’t tell how this person experiences it. We don’t always know what comforts them exactly, and everyone grieves differently. It could be three months, it could be six months, and you go through stages of up and down. And so I think that’s helpful to know, is that grief is very personal and individualistic. There is no standard. Stage and expectation of this is where you should be at because it’s four months now.
Chloe Purcell 15:07
So yeah, you saying that brought up a question in my own mind, and I know we’ll have Q and A time, but I want to get my question in real quick. So you mentioned that grief is individualistic, so it’s going to look different for each person, but sometimes in counseling, we have people who have been grieving for years on it, yes, where it’s prolonged and it’s gotten to the point where it’s impacting their walk with the Lord. Yes, it’s impacting their you know, if they’re a parent and they have children, it’s impacting their ability to love their family well, or be a good spouse, right? Or it’s just impacting work, or it’s multifaceted, right? In those areas, where is the line that we as counselors draw with this is biblical grief. You know, this is okay, and this is becoming unbiblical, and it’s actually potentially becoming sinful because it’s impacting your walk with the Lord.
Lilly Park 16:05
That’s right. Well, you know, First Thessalonians 4:13 talks about, we can grieve with hope for those who are with the Lord now, right? And so there is that human element of being very sad and losing a loved one, and I like to say we grieve because we loved much. Yes, most likely I’m not going to grieve over someone who is able, right? I’m going to grieve over someone I loved tremendously. So I think that says that this person loved, this person who passed away deeply, and we want to be sensitive to that. But on the other hand, are you grieving with hope, or are you grieving without hope? And you grieve with hope when you remember that this person is no longer suffering and this person is truly home, and there’s a reunion someday for all of us in that component. So I think it comes down to having a lot of this worldly perspective and expectations and even dreams that you have with this person, broken dreams growing old together, like I know widows who became widows in their early 30s because the husband had a brain cancer. And we don’t expect those things to happen when you’re like 30 or 31 right? So I think it’s helping this person gently to turn look upwards of what is our hope, that eternal perspective, this, this grief is temporary. It’s not forever.
Lilly Park 17:51
So I think we need to maybe start from there, but also why? What’s keeping them grieving so long? Is it regrets they have? I think that would be important to understand, give them the eternal perspective. But what makes it hard for them to not dwell on it constantly? And I think regrets is something that can be powerful, maybe unresolved relationships, and so maybe we need to talk about forgiveness. And so I don’t want to go too digress or anything, but it’s hard to reconcile with someone who’s no longer alive where but you can forgive that person in your heart, and there’s a sense of the peace that you have as you give that to the Lord. So you’re not living in the past, but you can live in the present and look forward to the future. Yeah, so I think I’m talking in the context of grieving the death of a Christian.
Lilly Park 19:00
But another thing is, I remember meeting with a widow. She was in her 60s or 70s. She met her husband as teenagers. They got married, I think like 1819, they had a business together. They were married, I don’t know, maybe 40 years ago. This is a long time ago, over 10 years ago, but she lost her husband two years grieving, two years, two years before we met. And we met because things were starting to affect her functioning. And this, I learned something powerful by meeting with her, which is this. I asked her simply, have you grieved the death of your husband? And all of a sudden the tears just go whoosh, yeah? And I just let her weep for, I don’t know, maybe 15 minutes, I just gave her my tissue box. Yeah. And I didn’t try to speak. I just let her cry, and she said she wasn’t able to really grieve, because she had to keep working keep the business going. And she had adult children, but they weren’t really supportive. So she just had she was this. She was keeping herself distracted, to keep going, and I’m thankful that we got to meet because it was, it was weighing heavy on her, and it was two years. So those are some things that come to mind with people who are grieving too long. What was too long mean, right, right? But as also, yes, but if it’s been over a year where you are grieving, as if this person just died yesterday, I definitely would encourage that person to talk to someone for counseling.
Chloe Purcell 20:58
Yeah, thank you. So I think we are ready for some questions. Anyone has any All right, perfect. So I’m just going to read it, because he added some details in here, and I want to make sure we answer this thoroughly. So Rich says I deal with those in hospice and are dying regularly. I have noticed the commonality of dying people being unwilling to discuss their impending death and to spiritually prepare for this final experience. Of course, there are exceptions to this reluctance. How can we use biblical counseling methodology and tool sets such as facilitation and encouraging candid discussion by seeking heart issues?
Lilly Park 21:38
Thanks. Thanks, Rich for your question. That’s a really good question. So what we’re thinking specifically with those who are dying and they have a few months to live we I think there could be many reasons for this, but one that is more common is denial, and I talked about that earlier, so I know your question is talking about the person dying, but I think it’s also important to address family members. And denial goes both ways. So let me start with the family members. Sometimes, when people are dying or they’re in hospice, it makes it even more hard to die. Can I put it that way? Because family members are in denial. They’re saying, Oh, you’re going to be fine, Dad, Mom, I know this treatment will work. You’re going to get through it. And meanwhile, the mom or dad or aunt and uncle, whoever it is, or grandmother, grandfather, they’re they’re ready to die. They’ve been suffering a long time, and they’re, if anything, they want to make the most of their time with the family members, sharing good memories, singing songs and hymns and maybe reading Scripture together.
Lilly Park 22:57
So I think there’s a denial that can happen when we’re not facing reality on the family members part, and I understand that’s hard, because we love this family member, so we can comfort the family members, help them to know how to best help the person who’s dying. What are the decisions that still need to be made? Do you know what they want to do, for their funeral arrangements, things like that, and then for the person who’s dying, there’s a component of denial. And I can’t tell you one formula or a simple answer, but I would want to better understand is there’s this avoidance, escapism from reality when we deny and again, some of the questions I asked earlier would be helpful in saying that we we all die someday, yes, and Psalm 139 talks about that our days are in God’s book, and we don’t die because we’re in control. We don’t choose. Nothing is a surprise to God. So helping this person to see that dying is part of life.
Lilly Park 24:11
We all die, but in your situation, what makes it so fearful? What makes it so hard to think about dying? What? What is burdening you? I think that would be helpful to better understand some of their heart, but also ask them questions about their life, their past, their stories. Because it’s not just about understanding the heart again. The heart can be common issue with several people, but they bring different experiences, expectations, like, for instance, maybe someone who’s dying has been healthy their whole life. They eat well, they exercise well, they follow all the rules. About living a long life, and then they get this diagnosis, and they just feel crushed. They think, Where did this come from? And it’s denial of, I can beat this. I just need to perhaps do something differently. So I’m just thinking that’s a simple example of how this person lived his or her life can shape why they’re in denial and not wanting to talk about death. So that would be some things to try to understand as this person’s life. Ask them to tell you what their diagnosis? What’s been so hard about it? Is it the fact that they’re not going to be with their grandchildren anymore? So what’s keeping them from not facing the reality?
Chloe Purcell 25:55
Yeah, good. Thank you again. Thank you guys so much for the questions. We recognize that this topic is pretty heavy for many, and our next question is going to be a little bit on the heavier side. But Tommy, thank you so much for asking this. How would you help someone grieve when they believe their loved one died apart from the Lord?
Lilly Park 26:15
That is hard, and I think what we have to not do is give them false hope, right? That is not the way to comfort them. And, you know, I actually went through something like this years ago and losing a family member who I was not sure about salvation. But what comforted me, there’s a passage, thinking it’s in Romans, where it says God has mercy on whom He chooses. God heart is whom he chooses. And the reason why that was at least helpful for me with that passage is to understand because I was having some regrets. Could I have done more to share the gospel? Could have done more to spend time with this family member. Those thoughts were coming because it’s so final, right, when someone dies, and that’s why we should share the gospel faithfully, absolutely while we can. But it is too late. This person has already died, and I don’t know if this person as a Christian, but that was comforting to know that it’s not me who has the power to save people. So I think that can be helpful with guilt that a person might have who lost a loved one. Is what makes it so hard in your grieving over someone who’s not saved. And I think another component is just that God is always good. God is always good, even when something so painful, like losing a loved one who died without knowing Christ, we know the eternal reality of that, but we have to remember that hope in the midst of it, of who God is and how he is perfectly good. He is perfectly compassionate. And I think that can be a way to again. We can’t we’re not trying to fix that, right, but I think we can comfort this person with true help and wisdom from the Word of God.
Chloe Purcell 28:29
Yeah, I love that you mentioned when a loved one passes, or not even a relative, but just anyone, anyone that we value deeply and we question whether or not they knew the Lord or not. Those questions of I should have done this. I had this opportunity, and I did take it, and having to recognize that, yes, share the Gospel, do you know? But ultimately, someone’s salvation does not lie on you. That’s right, and that is a very heavy burden to hold, that’s right. It’s a burden that you don’t have to hold, that’s right. And I think that’s a big comforter for, you know, people who might have gone through this together. It’s just something, I thought you mentioned that.
Lilly Park 29:16
I was just thinking, I think that’s why my friends who are pastors, when they are speaking of the funeral, and it’s for someone who didn’t know the Lord, that’s hard, right? But what they do is they try to share the gospel with those who are still alive, those who are they are present, because you still have a choice. You can still believe in Christ as your Savior. So yeah, I think that’s, that’s what we can do.
Chloe Purcell 29:42
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for your question. Let’s see if there’s some more perfect Clovis, I’m sorry if I mispronounced your name. They asked, do you approach a situation differently when the suffering is the result of. Personal decisions, and they list alcoholism as an example, versus situations outside the person’s controls, such as cancer. If so, how?
Lilly Park 30:08
Yeah, that’s a really good question, and I think that’s really discerning, because we don’t want to be a cookie cutter in our approach. I think we can be more hurtful of like, what sin do you have to confess? Right? Right? And so, all right, well, sometimes, so there’s a suffering that happens because of sin. Let’s go back to the beginning of what we started out with. So we have we have sin. We have sinful people in a sinful world, you and I are sinners. We sin. We sin against others. We hurt others, but sometimes people hurt us, and we suffer not because of unwise decisions, but because of ungodly decisions against us, right? So I think if you are suffering because of a sinful decision like alcoholism and consequences that Well, the Bible says that God is faithful to forgive those who confess their sins, and so we need to encourage them to turn to God and ask God for forgiveness of their sins and to confess their sins, ask for forgiveness, otherwise you won’t know peace. You’re going to wrestle with guilt over the sinful decisions you made. And that’s really powerful, because guilt, if we don’t address guilt that can become depression, that can become anxiety, that can become other problems, physical health problems, struggling to sleep, having ulcers and so forth, so blood pressure, we can go on and on right now for someone who is suffering, not because They sinned, I think, I think even like someone who was mistreated, for example, there’s multiple responses.
Lilly Park 32:11
I would encourage this person that God will make all things right someday, because sometimes maybe they’re wanting justice now, to remember who God is. I literally share this with someone this past week. I don’t want this person to live with bitterness because of the wrong done against them. And if we’re not careful, we can focus a lot on the wrong done against us, and it is sinful, it is wrong. But if we’re not careful, we can take that justice into our own hands, and we can try to be the judge. We can be the one trying to punish people in different ways. And so like I think I would want to encourage them. I think it’s in Romans 12, that God is the one who will take vengeance. We do our part to pursue peace with people. So I can comfort this person to not live in the past of what’s been done to them to see and maybe it’s how they see themselves. Maybe there’s shame with that. And so we can talk about who you are forgiven in Christ, new creature in Christ, and same with the person who sinned with alcohol, drugs, whatever it might be, pornography, whatever it might be. So those are different responses, but pointing them to Christ, ultimately, for hope.
Chloe Purcell 33:44
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And I think it’s important, you know, speaking specifically to when we are sinned against, yeah, it’s very easy, especially when it’s hard, awful things that have happened. But even in the midst of those, you know, sometimes we ourselves still said, and in class we talk about, you know, someone might the 98% that’s right, but we have our 2% that’s right. And why? Why would we not want to be free from that 2% that’s right? So taking, taking the steps to walk in freedom, even if it’s just that 2% you know, taking those steps.
Lilly Park 34:20
Yeah, and maybe we wouldn’t say that in the beginning with someone who’s been sinned against, but later when they are seeing God more clearly and they are worshiping with the church and in the Word. But also, we don’t want to enable their sin, overlook or say it’s okay. You have a right to be angry, right? Your child was hit by a drunk driver and that kind of thing. You’re right, and I’m so glad you mentioned that. But there is a time and place the Bible talks about that, but we should own 2% 5% whatever it is, because. Is sin, is sin, yeah, and we don’t have an excuse for our sinful thoughts, attitudes, behavior and words, yeah, we can’t blame mothers for our sin.
Chloe Purcell 35:11
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So I have been for marriage and family counseling. I’m a newlywed, so I’ve learned a lot through that class. But an unfortunate reality of some marriages is miscarriages, yes, so I would love for you to take a moment, kind of to speak to how do we counsel a family that’s going through a miscarriage? Yes, we recognize some families. Maybe it’s their first born that they miscarry, or they already have children. They’re expecting a third or fourth, and then they miscarry. So how would you counsel based on the different scenarios?
Lilly Park 35:45
Yes, I’m so glad you brought that up, because that’s a topic that is that I really care about. And it’s not because I’ve gone through miscarriage, but I’ve, I’ve known a lot of men and women, husbands and wives who have really hurt, and I sense the weight of that, and not just once, but multiple times. And so I would say with miscarriages is, I think this is an area where the church can, we can be more sensitive about and this, it’s everything we talked about at the beginning of this form of being, not just trying to fix and fix the problem, and being so eager to help. I would say, every time I hear about someone’s miscarriage, it’s not the same as another person. And again, it’s personal. In fact, I remember one woman at my previous church, we had a lot of moms. She said it was, it was my single friends who were more comforting than my married friends. Do you know why? Because some of our married friends who had miscarriages were projecting their experiences onto this woman, and sometimes it was even more graphic, it was harder, and it just added on to their grief, because they’re going through their own confusion and hurt and questions, and now they’re gras grappling with what another person went through, yeah, in their in their miscarriage.
Lilly Park 37:29
So I think we need to be careful of comparing people’s miscarriages and not be like, Oh, well, Chloe, you’ll have more children. Who’s to say? We cannot make promises like that. Yeah, and or Chloe, you know, I know so and so. And at least you have three children. You know what I mean. And we say these things, we again, we intend to help. We want to help. We’ll do anything to try to say something. You have look at those beautiful girls or boys, but it doesn’t matter. Each child is different, and you lost a child, and there’s a deep bonding that happens as a mom for 10 months, right? Approximately and physically, there’s a bonding that happens. And so we we need to be sensitive to that personal experience. So but we practice the things we talked about earlier. Yes, yeah, we we be there physically, we share meals, we provide meals, we ask, and some people don’t want meals. Everyone grieves differently, and so I like to ask them what would be helpful and what is not helpful. Some people welcome meals. Some people don’t want that. Some people want more privacy. Some people want more visits. I think sending cards is always helpful, but keep it short.
Lilly Park 38:56
And another thing is, when you drop off meals, just drop it off. When I drop off meals, I don’t even ring the doorbell. I just text them it’s by your door. Because I don’t want even, I don’t even want them to feel like they have to dress up or anything that’s right, and I don’t need drinks or anything like that, so I can see their baby later, if they just had a baby. I don’t know this is miscarriage, but I think the same applies for those who just gave birth. Absolutely. So seems common sense, perhaps, but I think we miss these common sense cues. But I would just say miscarriage is is very personal, individualistic, and being there physically and praying for them is what I found. And also sending cards. Maybe it’s a year after the miscarriage, I know of moms who were really comforted to know that, oh, I didn’t know they remembered, and even putting the baby’s name. I know of couples who had stillborns too, and putting the. Name of that child and saying, you know, we’re thinking of so and so we’re thinking of you, and that can be helpful, as we are remembering your child, even though he or she was never born or or died too soon. Yeah, we’re not just, this is going to sound harsh, but we’re not just forgetting about them, right? And on the other hand, we don’t want to idolize their memories, but we want to remember them in a way that acknowledges their existence at some point.
Chloe Purcell 40:36
Yeah, and you, you mentioned a Sarah day in class, and it really, stuck with me. You said that for these families, that I think it was one specific family, they their child was born and died a few months later. Is that correct?
Lilly Park 40:50
Oh, yes, yes. And they knew that would happen today soon, yeah.
Chloe Purcell 40:55
since then, you’ll just simply ask, you know, what are you missing about so and so today, or what is something that you loved about so and so, continuing to bring up their child’s name, yes, and asking them personal questions, not like an invasive way, but in a way of, you know, letting their child still live. That’s for, you know, even after their child’s no longer here.
Lilly Park 41:18
Right, physically, not here. And I want to be careful with that. Is the reason why I do that with that couple, is because they told me that’s helpful, yes. So I asked, that’s right? I asked, what’s helpful? What’s not they said, it’s not helpful when people don’t bring up his name, right? It’s not helpful when people just don’t talk to them because they want to avoid talking about the elephant in the room. Yeah, I think for them, it’s more helpful to acknowledge what has happened. And they were grieving with whole hope, but it was still very, very, very, very hard. It was hard, but I think I that was really helpful for me to know what’s helpful, not because I didn’t want to bring my experiences with other people into their situation. Yeah, so thank you for bringing that up.
Chloe Purcell 42:11
Yeah. Absolutely. The importance of asking people well, now
Lilly Park 42:16
Seems so basic, doesn’t it? But I think we just make assumptions so often, absolutely, or we hear testimonies of people and we think, Oh, that was that’s what worked with for her.
Chloe Purcell 42:26
And it’s like, no, because it’s very individualized, like we’ve been talking about, grief looks different for each person, how they handle it, how they want others to handle it, exactly. And there’s a lot of care that they will sense when you simply ask, what can what will be best for you? That’s right, you know, right? I’m gonna cook you a meal. Come to your door. It’d be best if you invited me, and you know.
Lilly Park 42:49
Because I know this will help you, right?
Chloe Purcell 42:52
I love that. That’s really good. So moving on. How would we counsel someone grieving a broken or estranged relationship, so that can be friendship, family, maybe a romantic relationship, going into more divorce territory. This is how a broader question, but go with what you want to go with, okay?
Lilly Park 43:15
And I’m glad to you know, feel free to follow up on anything that you might think of. Well, yeah, you’re right. That can happen in family and friends and so forth. Well, I what’s been helpful also to see is there is such a thing as friends for a season, and so it doesn’t mean once we’re friends that we will necessarily be friends forever and be and have that same relationship. I think the dynamics of our relationship can change, and there’s a grieving that happens. So I hear this from others, where the single friends grieve the change friendship they have of their married friends, and especially when a baby enters the picture. So there’s a change dynamic of their friendship, and there’s a sense of grieving and that change. And not everyone, but for some people, but I think what’s helpful is talking about their expectations. Well, what are your expectations of this particular relationship? And I think that can get us closer to why they’re struggling so much. Because maybe their expectation was that things would be the same, and maybe they had a conflict, and things are not the same after reconciling, and they’re wondering, are we okay? Are we sinning and just helping them to see that there’s wisdom in approaching people differently based on new knowledge you have about them.
Lilly Park 44:54
Yeah, and that doesn’t mean that you’re you don’t have a real friendship with. Them. It just means it might look different, and that could be family members. Maybe they betrayed you, maybe they shared something through gossip that you asked them not to. And so now you’re not going to share as much with them, but maybe you used to be very close. You used to do all kinds of things together, and so there’s a sense of grieving in that as well, and maybe even broken dreams. I don’t think we talk enough about broken dreams with this. We talk about grief and suffering, maybe with chronic health issues or or death and even disabilities, but also having dreams that don’t turn out the way you thought it would be can be very relevant for what we talked about with grieving.
Chloe Purcell 45:53
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that’s really good. So yeah, again, very heavy topic today, we appreciate you know you attending, if you attended live, if you’re watching this back on YouTube, thank you so much for watching this back. We hope that we were able to approach this topic with care, because it is a topic that deserves care, and it is one that our churches should not shy away from, and not just pastors, but lay people as well. A lot of the stuff we talked about today, your normal person sitting in the pew can do as well, and can take these things and go home and strengthen your church and understanding how to better help those who are grieving and suffering. So again, thank you so much for attending today.
