We’re joined today by Sandra Peoples, PhD candidate at Southwestern and author of Accessible Church: A Gospel-Centered Vision for Including People with Disabilities and Their Families. Joining us also is Dr. Karen Kennemur, professor of children’s ministry at Southwestern. Today, Sandra is going to give us some insight into how the Southern Baptist Convention is moving forward in the realm of disability ministry.
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Host 0:06
Hello and welcome to the Southwesterners’ Forum. We’re joined today by Sandra Peoples PhD candidate at Southwestern and author of Accessible Church: A Gospel-Centered Vision for Including People with Disabilities and Their Families. Joining us also is Dr Karen Kennemur, professor of children’s ministry at Southwestern. Today, Sandra is going to give us some insight into how the Southern Baptist Convention is moving forward in the realm of disability ministry.
Chandler Snyder 0:35
Well, Hello and welcome to the Southwesterners’ fFrum. We are thankful to be back and to be back with you, hoping to have a meaningful conversation about issues that are encountered in local ministry. Today, we have the pleasure of being with two incredible people, one of whom I have had the pleasure of working with in a few contexts, and the other, I have had the pleasure of reading some things from, and I’m getting to know today. We are joined by Dr Karen Kennemur and almost-Dr Sandra Peoples. Welcome to both of you. Would you take a second and introduce yourselves? For me, Sandra, we’ll start with you, and I’ll do a little bit of the work to get you running into it. Okay? You are a current PhD candidate here at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, but she also served as the disability ministry consultant for the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention. I know that you are a published author, which I have referenced, as well as writing things like the Accessible Church: A Gospel-Centered Vision for Including People with Disabilities and Their Families. What else do we want to know and need to know about you?
Sandra Peoples 1:47
Sandra, well, that covers a lot, and some of those titles are quite the tongue twister, so I’m impressed you got all that out. So my husband and I live outside of Houston, Texas, where he is a pastor, and we have two boys, the older one is 20, and the younger one is 18. And so that takes up a lot of time, as well as the job and the PhD work and all of that. So, you know, I just keep taking as many opportunities as I can to share the importance of churches welcoming people with disabilities and their families, because it has such an impact on me personally.
Chandler Snyder 2:26
Right, well, I’m going to follow up on that, why personally it matters so much in a little bit. But Dr Kennemur, you are the professor of children’s ministry here at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, having served for a number of years, secured a number of degrees from here, and you also wear another hat with the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention. Tell us a little bit about what you do in the classroom and outside of the classroom in the local church.
Karen Kennemur 2:51
So I guess inside the classroom, I have the privilege of getting to teach people that are passionate about and have callings into children’s ministry and family ministry, those are my two areas. I also teach a lifespan discipleship class, which is a wonderful class that we look at all the age groups that would appear in the local church. And how are we discipling students to actually go out and research to see what is happening in the local church as far as discipleship. We’re at that time of the semester where now they’re giving their presentations. And it’s, very fascinating. I love that kind of study, human growth and development is one of my favorite areas, as well as children’s ministry. I teach at the master’s level and in all of our doctoral programs. So yes, I wear another hat. So my full time job that I’ve been at Southwestern for about 20 years, that’s my full time job as a professor. And then part time, I work with the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention. I’ve worked with them for a long time, but in 2018 I took on a part time gig with them, and really it just looks like one big full time job, because everything I do is all about children’s ministry and family ministry and one job makes me better at the other job, and so they are so closely tied together that really it’s just one big job. And I’m very thankful for that. I’m very thankful for the importance that both entities put on children and family. Also I’m married. Been married for like, 43 years, and so my husband is in the business world, and we have three kids, two daughter in laws and five grandchildren. And I attend a church in Cedar Hill by the name of Hillcrest Baptist Church.
Chandler Snyder 5:07
Well, great. Well, thank you all for taking the time to introduce as everyone listening to this conversation and coming to the table to kind of hear what we are going to be talking about today. It’s important to remind everybody who Southwestern is. We are an institution that takes seriously the task that’s entrusted to us, which is to prepare men and women for Gospel service, helping Southern Baptist churches do that, and today we’re going to be talking about a unique vein of children’s ministry and family ministry. Specifically, how do we minister to families and to individuals with special needs? So Sandra, this is one of your realms of specialty, and what you’re writing on and researching and serving in particular, but you made a reference to it having kind of a unique and special place and motivation. Tell us a little bit about where that comes from and what that is.
Sandra Peoples 6:04
Well, I grew up with a big sister with Down Syndrome. She was just 14 months older than I was, and so I’ve never had a day of my life that I wasn’t a member of a special needs family, and we grew up in a small town in Oklahoma, and we attended the same church that my mom grew up in and my grandfather grew up in. So we were the fourth generation of our family in this church. So when it came to Sunday mornings, staying home wasn’t optional for us, which meant that the church had to take some steps of accessibility to make sure that my sister, Sybil, could participate and be evangelized and be discipled. And even though the church didn’t have a formal ministry, they took those steps every part of her life. She was saved and baptized as a teenager there, and so I just kind of growing up thought that that was normal for a church that, of course, a church would make accommodations for a person with disabilities. And then, fast forward a few years, my husband and I met in seminary at Southeastern where we got our MDivs, and then he was a pastor in Pennsylvania, and our son was diagnosed with autism when he was three years old, and we looked around our church at the time and realized that that we didn’t have any members with disabilities. We didn’t have any special needs families because we weren’t taking the steps of accessibility that they would need in order to feel welcome there.
Sandra Peoples 7:39
So that kind of started this, this new path and trajectory. And so since then, for the last 15 years, this has been the focus of my ministry calling. And so the church is where my husband has served as pastor. We have started disability ministries to make sure that James is included and that other families can be included as well. And then, because my experience specifically is in small and normal sized churches, it kind of makes me uniquely able to help other churches of similar sizes start ministries, strengthen the ministries they have. And so that’s what led first to me working at the SBTC as their disability ministry consultant, and then coming to Southwestern to work on a PhD, because it just opens more doors and opportunities to serve churches and then invest in other ministry leaders. And so it’s been such a gift to learn more about family ministry and how special needs families can also be discipled in these family ministry models.
Chandler Snyder 8:47
Okay, I’m gonna throw a question at you now that wasn’t in our pre-work, so you can prepare for it after I ask Dr Kennemur a question. But I’m interested to know in your experiences helping churches start this, what have been some of the characteristics of the churches that are eager to find and to push into this space, what are hurdles that you’ve typically overcome? I’m going to let you think about it. Dr Kennemur, let me ask you a question while I give Sandra some time to think it through. You have had a great deal of experience in children’s and family ministry. I won’t say how much experience. I’ll let you say that number if you choose to say that number. But what are some trends that you’ve observed over the years relating to families, engaging with churches, that have children with disabilities?
Karen Kennemur 9:35
Wou know, the first time for me personally, because I’m not from what we would call a typical family. We didn’t have anyone that had any disabilities that we that we knew of. There probably were some that we just didn’t know. But I’ll never forget, we lived in Houston. We’re at Spring Baptist Church, and I was the director for Vacation Bible School. And in those days, at Spring Baptist Church, our Vacation Bible School was 1000 kids. And so I was working on Vacation Bible School all year long. At that time, I was their preschool director, weekday director also. And so we got a call. The church office got a call. He said, Hey, Karen, we have a family that wants to know if their kids can come to Vacation Bible School. They foster kids. In those days, we were saying that foster kids were kids with special needs. And so I said, sure! I grew up in a pastor’s home, and we never said no to anyone that was invited. I mean, we invited everyone to our church, and this family had, I think, 10 children, from profound to very light disabilities, I guess is, I don’t know what the correct word would be, and so I was thrilled, and what they said was there was no church in the Spring area that would accept them into Vacation Bible School. Well, I was shocked, and I was very naive, okay, so then I began to realize, Okay, what does this mean? Oh, we’ve got to move classrooms off the second floor. We have to start making accommodations. And we fumbled through that, but that family joined our church, and they were there for many years after we left. And so that one invitation and that acceptance was really important.
Karen Kennemur 11:53
And so the trend that I’ve seen through the many years is that, you know, we had churches that didn’t have disability ministries that really it was only the mega churches, or the large churches that could do that. And I think that where we are today is more and more churches are reaching out to the SBTC, reaching out to Sandra and through our ministries and wanting to bring that into a small or medium sized church, which is phenomenal. If you look at statistics, we have lots of people in the world that are affected by disabilities, and they’re not always seen. They’re silent disabilities, and with the with the rise of anxiety, bringing on all kinds of even emotional disabilities, we just need to be the church to everyone. And so I think that we’re doing a really good job in that. So the trends are upward, if you will. If we’re on a curve, we’re going up.
Chandler Snyder 11:54
Okay, now, Sandra, tocome back to that question I left you with. I am blessed to be part of a church that has in the last few years taken seriously the ministry to families and to individuals with special needs. But as we think about what we do as a church and how we engage, what are some characteristics that define how a church engages in this ministry, both positively and negatively?
Sandra Peoples 11:54
The big factor is having a lead pastor who sees this as a vital part of what a church can look like. And so if you can get the lead pastor on board, if he understands the theology of disability, and that means every person is made in the image of God and has the ability to have a relationship with him. And then you think about, as Dr Kennemur mentioned, this really high number of families impacted by disability. The last census told us it’s two in seven families in the US. So this is a mission field. And so churches that take this seriously, that do this well, they see this as a mission field. And so as Dr Kennemur mentioned, it’s families who foster, families who adopt, families who have a diagnosis that comes at birth or later in development. It’s a diagnosis like Down Syndrome like my sister had, or autism like James has, or even my older son has dyslexia, and so he is served by accommodations at church. And so a pastor having buy-in is huge. That helps a lot.
Sandra Peoples 12:40
Now, most of the emails I get in my position as the consultant, they come from children’s ministers. And these children’s ministers say we have this one kid. And we don’t know what to do. And so a lot of even understanding disability is we see behaviors that are showing the leaders that, hey, there’s there’s something going on here, and this kid needs to be better supported, either sensory wise or academically, in the work that they’re doing at church. And so children’s ministers are on the front line of this, because most churches, when they start a disability ministry or an inclusion program, it’s going to start in children’s ministry, they’re the ones that see the need, sometimes even before the rest of the church does. And so we’ve had so many churches from across Texas over the last few years, as I’ve been in this role, start with an email, like, we have this one kid, and then they love and care for that family, and then more families learn about what it looks like at that church to be welcomed and to belong, to really have a sense of belonging there. And those ministries can really grow and really impact the entire community.
Chandler Snyder 16:04
Okay, one of the things that I so much appreciate about being a Southwesterner in serving here at Southwestern is that we stir the gamut of what you’re talking about. Of course, we are uniquely positioned, just like the other Southern Baptist seminaries, to prepare men for lead pastor positions and to see them equipped. But we have an ecosystem that also is set up to equip children’s ministers and ministers in education that are engaging on that front line which you’re talking about. So getting lead pastor awareness and buy-in can start, and does start here at Southwestern to see this stage and this reality that families are facing, as well as equipping them to think about children’s ministry and disability ministries throughout the way. So I’m really thankful for the heritage that is Southwestern in the moment that we sit in here now. Dr Kennemur, one of the things that Sandra said, was raising awareness and having a lead pastor. One of the things that’s recently taken place is that there has been a Children’s Ministry Sunday added to the calendar of events, and a Disability Ministry Sunday added to the state conventional calendar. How do moves like that get communicated to the church, and what does it do for awareness? How does it help? How does it raise awareness and get churches moving toward action?
Chandler Snyder 17:46
How does it raise awareness and get churches moving toward action?
Karen Kennemur 17:51
Yeah, one of the things. But I want to stop for a minute and say, what a wonderful thing Southern Baptists have. We have taken a lead, maybe in Christian in the world of Christianity in the United States, because Lifeway, which used to be called the Sunday School Board. We began producing curriculum for special needs and disabilities in the 70s, and so kudos to Southern Baptists for trying. You know, we’ve come a long way now. Our publishing arm, which is Lifeway, is doing a lot of things to raise awareness in the children’s ministry part of life, and they’re so they’re making strides. So that’s one of the ways that we get the word out in the Southern Baptist world. These days of focus? I think they put focus on families, and so they have people with disabilities in their families. It’s a celebration. We are so glad that we have families with disabilities in our church. And so to me, these days are pointing at a day of not only Hey, this is out here, but let’s celebrate the people that are coming.
Karen Kennemur 19:37
You know, Chandler, when I when I started my student, when I started my PhD, I found this article that said (I was doing a paper on autism), and this article said 92% of all families that have a child that’s disabled, will never come to the church. So I began to look that up, and I couldn’t find any documentation of that, but I know what that means. I think most people feel like there’s no place. So when we have days of celebration. That’s when the church is saying, Hey, we do have a place for you, because most of the people that are celebrating that day do have disability ministries in their church. So I think it helps raise awareness.
Chandler Snyder 20:36
Okay, so Sandra, that’s been done at the state convention level. What are your hopes to see that done more nationally across our convention?
Sandra Peoples 20:45
Well, at the annual meeting this summer, I made a motion that we add Disability Ministry Sunday to the national calendar, and so I made the motion to the executive committee. They’re the ones who make the decisions about things that we put on our calendar as a convention. So it’s been fun to kind of see the progress of that motion that I made and watch it take all the steps that it’s taking. They actually referred the motion to a task force that they’ve created to study disability ministry in our SBC churches. And so the task force is going to take the next steps with that. The hope is that next summer, at the annual meeting in Orlando, we’ll be able to present our findings and recommend that all churches in our convention celebrate Disability Ministry Sunday. Right now the state convention of Maryland/Delaware also does it, in addition to SBTC. And then every year we hear about churches in lots of different states that they individually are celebrating it along with us. We do it on the second Sunday in July. July is the month that the Americans with Disabilities Act passed. And so it’s just kind of a way to commemorate accessibility across the board, in our country and in our churches, and so, as Dr Kennemur said, it’s just a way to celebrate families with disabilities and the gifts that they bring to our churches and raise awareness for the need for evangelism and discipleship for this often unchurched, unreached people group that exists in all of our communities.
Chandler Snyder 22:21
I think that is an incredible way to engage this conversation. For Southern Baptists that love to cooperate to engagement missionally, and to see this as a missional opportunity to serve families and get the Gospel to communities, is an incredible way to view it all right. So. Dr Kennemur, last shot, what do we need to know? What do we need to hear? And then Sandra, I’ll pop it over to you for the same question. What additional ways could churches engage children’s ministries and churches become more accessible to families like this?
Karen Kennemur 22:57
I think, what I hope happens quickly in the next 10 to 20 years is that disability ministry is just a normal, typical part of every church. I think one of the reasons that churches do not have disability ministries, perhaps they don’t have someone that’s currently coming to the church, but if they had one, people will come. But I think they’re afraid, and so they don’t know how to do it. You just have to jump in and get started and call the SBTC. We’ll send Sandra or someone on her team, because we want this to just be a normal part of church life. You know, just like you have adult ministry, you’ve got student ministry, we want this to be disability ministry that every church has. So that is my hope and prayer for where we are. And you know, we’ve come a long way. We got a long way to go. But when I sit with the other state convention associates, I mean, they’re all children’s ministry associates, but there’s this love for disability, this wanting to learn. And how can we help? You know, our churches, so two state conventions have taken steps to do that, to help the local church, and so we just hope that others will join us in what we’re doing.
Chandler Snyder 24:37
That’s great. Sandra, I kick it over to you. I just want to highlight something that Dr Kennemur just mentioned. If they reach out to the SBTC with interest in starting or beginning to prayerfully think about a disabilities ministry the SBTC, I’ll commit them to this. So I hope Dr Lorick forgives me, they’ll put people on a plane or help get them to the local church to help on the convention dime. So one of the common barriers to starting something new is the financial obligation. Well, we’ve already torn a part of that down as we think about missional engagement. The dollar doesn’t matter when the mission does. So we want to prioritize the people needing Christ in those families, integrating into the church as the priority. But the other is the financial obligation of getting you to them. The church doesn’t have to carry. SBTC is eager to step into that space and partner. So what’s the last thing you want us to hear, Sandra? How can we be praying for you as we walk toward the annual meeting of 2026?
Sandra Peoples 25:38
Well, I think Dr Kennemur did a good job summarizing what our hope is, and when I pray this big prayer over the state of Texas, because that’s where I serve, that every church would be willing and ready to welcome every family, so that no family like mine is apart from the hope we have in the Gospel, but also the blessings of being part of a church family, you think about all the challenges that a special needs family faces and and then imagine doing that without the hope that we have in Christ and the promise that he’s redeeming all things and making all things new, and that everything we experience is for our good and for His glory. If we didn’t understand those truths, if we hadn’t been discipled and evangelized in that direction, it would be heartbreaking to just think of the thousands of families who navigate the same things that my family navigates, but does so without understanding that there’s a purpose and a hope that we can have in that.
Sandra Peoples 26:42
And so my big prayer is every church, for every family, that that would be true across the state. And now that I get to serve on the task force for the SBC, now I get to widen that prayer even more and to say, can we make this a reality for every Southern Baptist church across the country? Can we spread this even to the mission field, where our missionaries are equipped to better welcome and serve families impacted by disability and so on? Our task force, we have representatives from the IMB, from NAMB, from Lifeway, from the ERLC, and we’re all doing all that we can to come up with these ideas to say, what are the next steps that we can all take? There’s recommendations for the seminaries, and Southwestern is leading the way on the things that the task force will be recommending for things that we offer, and classes that we offer, and just such a hopeful future of how our future children’s ministers and student ministers and lead pastors and worship pastors and missions directors can all be better equipped to serve this huge population in our country. So it’s such an exciting time, such an optimistic time to say we’re just on the verge of revival breaking out is really what it feels like and families like mine are going to be impacted by this revival when lead pastors and children’s ministers and everybody on staff sees the need and then feels better equipped to meet the needs of families like mine.
ken 28:16
Can I add something to this, Chandler? Thank you, Sandra. We want to advertise this. So we are bringing back our disability ministry class, and that will be offered in the spring, and Sandra and I will be teaching that together. Actually, Dr Kennemur is going to just be Sandra People’s assistant in that we’re going to do that together. But my hope and prayer is that the next step is that we develop this certificate program, and that’s what we’re working towards. That’s where Southwestern, where we can go on the map as being, you know, leading the way, and that’s our hope and prayer.
Chandler Snyder 29:03
Well, love that plug. I’m so thankful for both of you. I’m going to make one final one. If you want more information about children’s ministry and disability ministry in particular, feel free to go and order this book, Children and Salvation. This is a cooperative and a collaborative book that I know Dr Kennemur would want me to highlight with partners from all over the SBC, Texas and other Southern Baptist seminaries, but Dr Kennemur is one of the lead editors who put this together, and Sandra has a chapter on children and disability. Dr Kennemur has a chapter is on evangelism and children. So feel free to grab this book and learn more about it as you engage the topic. We’re thankful for both of you. We’re going to continue to pray for the task force and the work of the task force, and of course, we ask everyone that’s listening to this to continue praying for Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary as we continue working to lead in the space of where ministry is happening. We’re grateful for you both, and we pray God’s blessing on you.
Host 30:04
You can read more about Sandra and her work at sandrapeoples.com. Thanks for joining us for the Southwesterners’ Forum, and we’ll see you next time.
